Picture books for a 3rd grader?? HELP.

[Christy in NE]

This question was asked by a well-meaning, hsing friend of mine. She totally caught me off guard, and I am now feeling like I really stumbled through my answer. She is also doing a literature-based curriculum for her ds, who will be in the 3rd grade also, yet is almost half a yr. younger than our ds.

I feel like I failed in my "defense" of FIAR. I need help. It's not that I feel I "owe" anyone an explanation of how I home school, but I really ought to be able to explain and defend it well, don't you think?:eek:

Another new hsing friend was referred to the same curriculum as my above mentioned friend, and expressed being a little overwhelmed with the volume of books that came in her box. I mentioned to her that I was continuing on with FIAR w/ds this year and highly recommended it. I offered to talk more about it if she was interested.

So, help me here all you FIAR lovers!!:lol::kiss: Help me to arm myself with some adequate explanations.;)

Thanks a bunch!!:group:

(ETA that I looked in the Archives and didn't see this addressed-maybe I am missing something?)

ETA also, that this particular friend is a former teacher, and she took her ds out of school as he was so ahead of the other dc....)

[Kendra AU]

We are using Vol. 1-3 with our third grader. Most American third graders are younger then him, but such is life. We picked to start his schooling when we did, and if we hadn't been living where we were at the time we most likely would have held off another year. ;)

As for picture books.. I think each and every single FIAR book is perfectly fine for any aged person. You don't need a big thick book to learn a good lesson. My son has walked away from FIAR knowing far more then some of his highschool and college aged cousins. No joke.

Last year he shared a lapbook we made from a FIAR book. When he got to his personification stuff his 15 year old cousin said, "Um, I just learned about that today! I can't believe you all ready know it Morgan!" :lol: She wasn't hurt by it, just shocked and seeing his little personified household items helped her remember what her teacher had said which was equally funny.

It's not the size of the book that matters, but the value of the book. The majority of the FIAR books have a whole lot of lessons one can learn without having to spend hours reading the book. Don't get me wrong we have our fair share of lovely chapter books too, the point is you're right FIAR is more then enough for a 3rd grader. ;)

Oh, and for the record, there's a good deal of stuff my kids learn that they then have to explain to their Daddy too. FIAR seems like a very simplistic curriculum, because it is. But simple doesn't mean not enough.

IMHO simple is better simply because one can focus on the lessons and not the planning. We can focus on what we're doing instead of all the things that need doing. Simple is better simply because it's simple. :D

[Susan A]

I understand......:group: One of my closest friends uses a big well-known boxed curriculum S******t.....both our oldest girls are 8. Well...her dd just finished one core thats like levels ahead of us......sometimes I feel so behind....

BUT then my dd points out our local monument and tells me all about her and why she is there....thank you Lentil

Then we go to a local park where she greets Mr and Mrs Mallard...thank you Make Way for Ducklings

Then she point out the Mona Lisa painting on TV and tells us Bon Jour!!...thank you Madeline

Then she draws a gorgeous sunset on the water....thank you Ping

Then she hears owl sounds and hoots back to them...and loved dissecting an owl pellet thanks to Owl Moon

Then she excitedly points out lighthouses while on vacation...thank you Little Red Light House and the Great Gray Bridge

Then she dances the Flamenco after finishing Ferdinand

Shall I go on...????

FIAR is a perfect fit for us and I am soo happy to be here!!!:clap::roflol:

[Christy in NE]

We are using Vol. 1-3 with our third grader. Most American third graders are younger then him, but such is life. We picked to start his schooling when we did, and if we hadn't been living where we were at the time we most likely would have held off another year.

As for picture books.. I think each and every single FIAR book is perfectly fine for any aged person. You don't need a big thick book to learn a good lesson. My son has walked away from FIAR knowing far more then some of his highschool and college aged cousins. No joke.

Last year he shared a lapbook we made from a FIAR book. When he got to his personification stuff his 15 year old cousin said, "Um, I just learned about that today! I can't believe you all ready know it Morgan!" :lol: She wasn't hurt by it, just shocked and seeing his little personified household items helped her remember what her teacher had said which was equally funny.

It's not the size of the book that matters, but the value of the book. The majority of the FIAR books have a whole lot of lessons one can learn without having to spend hours reading the book. Don't get me wrong we have our fair share of lovely chapter books too, the point is you're right FIAR is more then enough for a 3rd grader.

Oh, and for the record, there's a good deal of stuff my kids learn that they then have to explain to their Daddy too. FIAR seems like a very simplistic curriculum, because it is. But simple doesn't mean not enough.

IMHO simple is better simply because one can focus on the lessons and not the planning. We can focus on what we're doing instead of all the things that need doing. Simple is better simply because it's simple. :D

That is sweeeeet!!!:lol: I need to figure out how to explain what you've written. I mean I know I can send someone to this site-and I did look at HS reviews and FIAR has excellent reviews-but I suppose to someone that hasn't a clue, it must sound odd!:unsure: I want to be able to articulate my feelings. Unit studies in general are easy to explain and understand, but based around PB is a little challenging.

I love and agree with your views about simplicity!!:clap:

I understand......:group: One of my closest friends uses a big well-known boxed curriculum S******t.....both our oldest girls are 8. Well...her dd just finished one core thats like levels ahead of us......sometimes I feel so behind....

BUT then my dd points out our local monument and tells me all about her and why she is there....thank you Lentil

Then we go to a local park where she greets Mr and Mrs Mallard...thank you Make Way for Ducklings

Then she point out the Mona Lisa painting on TV and tells us Bon Jour!!...thank you Madeline

Then she draws a gorgeous sunset on the water....thank you Ping

Then she hears owl sounds and hoots back to them...and loved dissecting an owl pellet thanks to Owl Moon

Then she excitedly points out lighthouses while on vacation...thank you Little Red Light House and the Great Gray Bridge

Then she dances the Flamenco after finishing Ferdinand

Shall I go on...????

FIAR is a perfect fit for us and I am soo happy to be here!!!:clap:

Susan,
Perhaps our friends know each other??:lol:

No, no need to go on.:kiss: *I* get it. It is just something else to explain to friends like ours. Have you ever had this discussion with your friend? You can PM me if you want. My best friend uses Veritas Press, and pretty much every other hsing friend I have met either uses a workbook, textbook, or very $$ classical curriculum. That is great for them, but none of it will fly with ds. Or, me! Though I am very prone to times of extreme doubt about what I am currently doing-but that is a whole other thread.;)

[Rebe]

Most of my hsing friends have used Veritas, Sonlight, some other classical approach, or in general something very different from what we're doing. I also have a hard time articulating why FIAR is so special, why it works, why it's a beautiful and perfect way to homeschool ;) , why I love it so much, etc., etc. So here's my approach: I usually don't bother to defend it. :D If the conversation rolls around to comparing curricula (and this will happen less and less as your dc get older, trust me -- there are just better things to talk about!) I am very interested in what they're doing. I'm happy for them, I ask questions, I mention things we have in common (usually books we've also read), I am just so delighted for them that they've found a great fit for their family. Truly, I am. If they have questions about FIAR, I answer them, very enthusiastically. But I don't try to convince someone who doesn't understand the value of a picture book for an 8yo (or a 38yo or an 88yo) that it's worthwhile. I've found that some people just don't get it. Also, the older your dc get, the more their intelligence and creativity speaks for itself. They're obviously doing just fine -- maybe much better than fine! So the need to defend what you're using really diminishes.

Some time back, someone posted a link to a Carolyn Hax column. She's a youngish, hip advice columnist who tells it like it is to mostly younger, intelligent, educated people. So someone asked her about, I can't remember exactly, finding themselves, or finding their purpose, or the point of life -- something along those lines. And she basically said, well, you can do this or this or this ... or you can just read Miss Rumphius. Carolyn Hax gets it. Lots of people don't. I've just found that it's a losing battle to explain this to people who don't get it.

So I'm not saying to admit failure and not even try ;) , but just don't fret over it at all. That instinct to defend what you're doing really does diminish as the years go by. You know it works.

If you really feel the need to explain the picture book aspect, maybe you could just explain that it's a "context study," (which is what I call FIAR, rather than a unit study). You use an above-average picture book as your foundation, and pull out subjects from the context of the book, adapting each to the level of your child, using hands-on projects, living books, and other methods to teach concepts from all content areas that are relevant to the book you're studying. (Gee, can you tell I'm a former teacher with all that edu-speak?) :lol: Maybe the term "context study" will wow them and they won't think a picture book is too young for an 8yo anymore. ;)

[Rivka Wald]

If you said you were focusing on the literary genre of the short story, only with integrated art lessons, would she be impressed then? :roflol:

Honestly, I think many people aren't aware of the full range of picture books. I know that I wasn't. I looked at my kid, who loves hearing long chapter books read aloud, and I wondered how long picture books would hold her interest. But that was before I discovered books like Grandfather's Journey. I realized that there are tons of sophisticated, rich picture books that are more suitable for older children than younger ones - but many people never hear about them, because they expect their kid to be on the straight progression from simple picture books to easy readers to chapter books.

[Kendall in GA]

My standard, short response:

It's not the reading level of the books that matter. It's the rich lessons that come from the books. You'd be surprised. It's fun and I'm certain that YOU'd learn something, too! :D

[MarieD]

My standard, short response:

It's not the reading level of the books that matter. It's the rich lessons that come from the books. You'd be surprised. It's fun and I'm certain that YOU'd learn something, too! :D

I like this response!

I will add, that it is very important that you do not compare your curriculum choices with someone else's. Simply stating "We love FIAR, it is a very full and rich curriculum that is a great fit for our family." :D Other families may find a different one fits them and their philosophies better. To each their own…

[Christy in NE]

Most of my hsing friends have used Veritas, Sonlight, some other classical approach, or in general something very different from what we're doing. I also have a hard time articulating why FIAR is so special, why it works, why it's a beautiful and perfect way to homeschool ;) , why I love it so much, etc., etc. So here's my approach: I usually don't bother to defend it. If the conversation rolls around to comparing curricula (and this will happen less and less as your dc get older, trust me -- there are just better things to talk about!) I am very interested in what they're doing. I'm happy for them, I ask questions, I mention things we have in common (usually books we've also read), I am just so delighted for them that they've found a great fit for their family. Truly, I am. If they have questions about FIAR, I answer them, very enthusiastically. But I don't try to convince someone who doesn't understand the value of a picture book for an 8yo (or a 38yo or an 88yo) that it's worthwhile. I've found that some people just don't get it. Also, the older your dc get, the more their intelligence and creativity speaks for itself. They're obviously doing just fine -- maybe much better than fine! So the need to defend what you're using really diminishes.

Some time back, someone posted a link to a Carolyn Hax column. She's a youngish, hip advice columnist who tells it like it is to mostly younger, intelligent, educated people. So someone asked her about, I can't remember exactly, finding themselves, or finding their purpose, or the point of life -- something along those lines. And she basically said, well, you can do this or this or this ... or you can just read Miss Rumphius. Carolyn Hax gets it. Lots of people don't. I've just found that it's a losing battle to explain this to people who don't get it.

So I'm not saying to admit failure and not even try , but just don't fret over it at all. That instinct to defend what you're doing really does diminish as the years go by. You know it works.

If you really feel the need to explain the picture book aspect, maybe you could just explain that it's a "context study," (which is what I call FIAR, rather than a unit study). You use an above-average picture book as your foundation, and pull out subjects from the context of the book, adapting each to the level of your child, using hands-on projects, living books, and other methods to teach concepts from all content areas that are relevant to the book you're studying. (Gee, can you tell I'm a former teacher with all that edu-speak?) Maybe the term "context study" will wow them and they won't think a picture book is too young for an 8yo anymore. ;)
You nailed it!! Thank you!! Dh read your post this AM, and said he absolutely agreed with you about FIAR being more of a contextual than unit approach to learning. You see, this makes total sense to me the way you've put it! I can definitely articulate(which, btw, you've done nicely!) this and am praying this friend new to hsing will come here and take some time to read. :


I realized that there are tons of sophisticated, rich picture books that are more suitable for older children than younger ones - but many people never hear about them, because they expect their kid to be on the straight progression from simple picture books to easy readers to chapter books.
Oh, I agree! What I have experienced hsing in the same town, being a part of two different hsing groups, and perusing hsing message boards, is that many folks are out to get their dc climbing the education ladder,just as those in the corporate world climb the career ladder. Dd's best hsing friend is set to graduate the summer before she turns 16-and will have college credits. That's great for that family, but there is now way I am striving for that with my family.


My standard, short response:

It's not the reading level of the books that matter. It's the rich lessons that come from the books. You'd be surprised. It's fun and I'm certain that YOU'd learn something, too! :D
I love this! Short, sweet and to the point.:group:


I like this response!

I will add, that it is very important that you do not compare your curriculum choices with someone else's. Simply stating "We love FIAR, it is a very full and rich curriculum that is a great fit for our family." :D Other families may find a different one fits them and their philosophies better. To each their own…

Oh, Marie! You are so right on!!:group: Just at Celebrate Recovery this past Friday, part of the lesson was on comparisons. Dh and I sat there taking notes-mine much longer!;) I have come a lonnng way when it comes to comparing, but I constantly need to check myself. Recently, my bigger problem is that I see moms using such and such curriculum and living an insanely crazy schedule-and I want so badly to suggest FIAR. Me has tooo many opinions and me needs to keep me mouth zipped!:lol:

Okay, ladies! I am on fire now!! :lol:Thanks for your help!!:group:

[Judyn]

The Bee Tree level 4.6
Ferdinand Level 4.1
Make Way for Ducklings 3.1
Ping 4.2
Madeline 2.9
The Little red Lighthouse and the Great Grey Bridge 3.5
Miss Rumphius 2.9
The Clown of God 3.1
The Tale of Peter Rabbit 3.5
Owl Moon 2.9

This is a list of the "easy" books that you can cover through FIAR. There are several things you COULD point out.
1. These books are not the instruction...These books are a jumping board for curiousity and connection (2 things that must occur for learning to occur).

2. Even if these books are below their reading level...its a good thing. You learn by reading easier books not harder books that you have to trudge through...then meaning and connection gets lost.

3. Do THEY (the parents or adults in general) mainly read books that are challenging to them?...considering John Grisham and Mary Higgans Clark books are in the 6th -8th grade range.

4. Aren't these books just wonderful examples of great literature, great writing, and great stories that children love. As a middle school teacher, I used a picture book EVERY DAY to teach writing. They loved it and learned from it.


I could go on and on...but why? The important thing is that you are doing whats right for your family...

[Heather W]

My standard, short response:

It's not the reading level of the books that matter. It's the rich lessons that come from the books. You'd be surprised. It's fun and I'm certain that YOU'd learn something, too! :D

:yes: and the test scores speak for themselves.

In addition, my children have a joy and love of learning that cannot be replaced by a boxed curriculum.

[Laura F]

Here's what I'm thinking:

Yes, it's a picture book curriculum; however, it's not as if your child can't read other books, too. The stories are starting points for all sorts of learning--some textbook, some experiential. They're not restrictions. Using FIAR doesn't mean you don't use "big" books, too, or that your child's reading level is below-grade.

The best part of FIAR is that it isn't a "canned" curriculum. I took a look at the lesson plan manual for one of the Sonlight levels, and I was overwhelmed. FIAR is what works for us, and I don't throw my back out lugging around the manuals.

[Susan A]

I have to add to this today b/c I am so excited!! We are rowing Storm in the Night starting today. Well, what fun we have had already. We began keeping a weather chart and I read simple rain and weather books to my 5 y/o dd while her 8 y/o sister completed her seat work. Now the 5 y/o can tell you about the water cycle!!! Then both worked on their notebooking activities and began memorizing Isaiah 41:10. Even our weather is cooperating by looking stormy!!

I just LOVE, LOVE LOVE the flexibility of FIAR. The National Honeybee Awareness Day is Saturday Aug 21st. Well, b/c of the flexibility of FIAR, we can row that book the week before. Sonlight and others have NO flexibility and I can't work with that!!!

Thanks Lamberts for such an awesome curriculum:clap::clap:

[MarieD]

Careful about knocking Sonlight. There are many families here that use both or eventually move from FIAR to SL. Both are excellent curriculum, and it is important to find what works best for your family at the present time. :kiss:

[Susan A]

I totally agree about Sonlight being an excellent curriculum. My oldest used it in highschool and LOVED it!!! But that was when he was older and could follow the IG himself. I think it is overkill for the younger grades even though the literature is the best!!! I just love the flexibility of FIAR.....

[Christy in NE]

The Bee Tree level 4.6
Ferdinand Level 4.1
Make Way for Ducklings 3.1
Ping 4.2
Madeline 2.9
The Little red Lighthouse and the Great Grey Bridge 3.5
Miss Rumphius 2.9
The Clown of God 3.1
The Tale of Peter Rabbit 3.5
Owl Moon 2.9

This is a list of the "easy" books that you can cover through FIAR. There are several things you COULD point out.
1. These books are not the instruction...These books are a jumping board for curiousity and connection (2 things that must occur for learning to occur).

2. Even if these books are below their reading level...its a good thing. You learn by reading easier books not harder books that you have to trudge through...then meaning and connection gets lost.

3. Do THEY (the parents or adults in general) mainly read books that are challenging to them?...considering John Grisham and Mary Higgans Clark books are in the 6th -8th grade range.

4. Aren't these books just wonderful examples of great literature, great writing, and great stories that children love. As a middle school teacher, I used a picture book EVERY DAY to teach writing. They loved it and learned from it.


I could go on and on...but why? The important thing is that you are doing whats right for your family...

More excellent points!! Thank you! :clap:

Here's what I'm thinking:

Yes, it's a picture book curriculum; however, it's not as if your child can't read other books, too. The stories are starting points for all sorts of learning--some textbook, some experiential. They're not restrictions. Using FIAR doesn't mean you don't use "big" books, too, or that your child's reading level is below-grade.

[/QUOTE

So true!! Another good point to add!:clap:

[QUOTE=Susan A;836260]I have to add to this today b/c I am so excited!! We are rowing Storm in the Night starting today. Well, what fun we have had already. We began keeping a weather chart and I read simple rain and weather books to my 5 y/o dd while her 8 y/o sister completed her seat work. Now the 5 y/o can tell you about the water cycle!!! Then both worked on their notebooking activities and began memorizing Isaiah 41:10. Even our weather is cooperating by looking stormy!!

I just LOVE, LOVE LOVE the flexibility of FIAR. The National Honeybee Awareness Day is Saturday Aug 21st. Well, b/c of the flexibility of FIAR, we can row that book the week before. Sonlight and others have NO flexibility and I can't work with that!!!

Thanks Lamberts for such an awesome curriculum:clap::clap:

AWESOME!! Just love it.:D:clap:

Joining in with a huge THANK YOU to Steve and Jane!!:group::clap: