Rod and Staff.....do I need it all?

[EricaL]

I'm looking at what I'll want to be using in the next few years and I think we've decided we like Rod and Staff, but I'm completely confused about what I need to add if we are still doing FIAR in grade 1 and 2. In grade 1 they have reading workbooks as well as phonics workbooks. What is the difference and do I need both? And then in grade 2 there's reading, phonics, language, and spelling! That seems like so much. What can I pass on if we're doing FIAR?
Will my ds be behind when we finally move on from FIAR and use R&S curriculum completely if we have left stuff out in the early years.

Sorry for all the questions....my head is just spinning and I need some one to help me sort it out.

[WendyW]

I haven't used R&S in particular, so I won't answer that part, but for this question:


Will my ds be behind when we finally move on from FIAR and use R&S curriculum completely if we have left stuff out in the early years.


Probably yes, there might be few things that you have missed. But if she's 3rd grade and missing a first-grade concept, it will probably take all of 10 minutes to learn it. There is SOOO much repetition in comprehensive LA, that I wouldn't worry about it. If he's getting solid grounding in phonics, reading well (or progressing well in the early grades) and learning basic writing skills, the rest can wait a few years. (And if he's struggling with these things, he's better off if you don't overload him with more LA)

[Lisa Schafer]

We used R&S when we were first starting out. As much as I love it's simplicity for math and reading, and it's Christian tone, my kids found it to be extremely dry and boring. Then it dawned on me that R&S was not originally produced for home educators, but for Christian schools. The classroom setting usually needs more repetition and drill than we needed in our living room. ;)

If you're going to use it, I'd enter each subject one at a time, and decide if you really need them as you go along. I'd start with math and phonics, then add reading, then English if you find that you're really needing them. Typically, but not always, good readers are pretty good spellers, so you may not need spelling after they're reading on their own. You find out as you do more writing with them. And there are so many fun ways in FIAR to learn Language Arts, that you might find it unnecessary to add LA from R&S. Don't feel like you need to stock up on everything at once. ;)

[Christi in VA]

Hi Erica! Welcom to Five in a Row :)

I don't think you need formal grammar in the 1st and 2nd grade. I haven't started formal grammar until 3rd grade except in the conversational and simplistic ways of FIAR and conversationally using First Language Lessons.

[Rebe]

I highly recommend you still do FIAR in grades 1 and 2. ;) It's absolutely perfect for those years. All you have to add is math, plus some sort of reading if they're not reading well on their own yet.

I love R&S English and use it (at least I have so far) from grades 3 through 8. I really can't imagine using it for everything. As has been mentioned, the drawbacks are that it's designed for a school setting, and also it's drier and can be "boring" in presentation and content. I would really think twice before using a whole lot of R&S in the early years (or even later years, but by then you'll have a better idea of how your dc learn and how you like to teach).

You don't say how old your dc are, but it sounds like you have some time to work this through. I wouldn't jump in right away. Begin with FIAR, math, and reading, and you may find you don't need another thing for several years yet.

As for being behind, it's really hard to fall behind in the early years. As someone mentioned, anything they haven't quite picked up is going to be a piece of cake for them when they're a bit older. And I don't know about all R&S texts, but the English texts have tons of review from year to year.

Less is more in the early years!

[EricaL]

I highly recommend you still do FIAR in grades 1 and 2. ;) It's absolutely perfect for those years. All you have to add is math, plus some sort of reading if they're not reading well on their own yet.

I love R&S English and use it (at least I have so far) from grades 3 through 8. I really can't imagine using it for everything. As has been mentioned, the drawbacks are that it's designed for a school setting, and also it's drier and can be "boring" in presentation and content. I would really think twice before using a whole lot of R&S in the early years (or even later years, but by then you'll have a better idea of how your dc learn and how you like to teach).

You don't say how old your dc are, but it sounds like you have some time to work this through. I wouldn't jump in right away. Begin with FIAR, math, and reading, and you may find you don't need another thing for several years yet.

As for being behind, it's really hard to fall behind in the early years. As someone mentioned, anything they haven't quite picked up is going to be a piece of cake for them when they're a bit older. And I don't know about all R&S texts, but the English texts have tons of review from year to year.

Less is more in the early years!

Thank you! This is perfect advice!

My ds is going to be a kindergartener this year and we're starting out very simple, doing FIAR and a little basic math and phonics work. I'm a major planner, so I have been on the hunt for what we will be doing in the coming years as well. I think you have convinced me now that we should probably continue with FIAR (assuming we love it this year as much as I think we will) and just add a bit of math, phonics/reading to it.

Some just to be sure I am getting this right, we'd be fine without any other grammar, science and social studies until the 3rd grade?
what about spelling? That is offered in 2nd grade R&S and I am wondering if that is something we should plan on doing or not.

[Lisa Schafer]

Some just to be sure I am getting this right, we'd be fine without any other grammar, science and social studies until the 3rd grade?
what about spelling? That is offered in 2nd grade R&S and I am wondering if that is something we should plan on doing or not.

I don't add formal grammar at all until late middle school and use Grammar Plus for that. FIAR and Beyond offer LA lessons covering everything from nouns and verbs to creative introduction sentences for paragraphs. I wouldn't add spelling until you get to 5th or 6th grade and discover spelling difficulties. As I said earlier, if they love reading, they'll likely pick up on the spelling due to exposure to good literature. :) And while I'm mentioning spelling, have you looked at AVKO's Sequential Spelling? It's a very simple and common sense program and was specially made for children with reading disabilities. However, my younger son uses it and does extremely well with it. He's 11yo and this is his first exposure to a formal spelling program. He's just joining in on lesson with his older SN sister. ;)

Remember, this is just how I would do it...but as you "grow" along, you'll find the way that works best for you.

Hope this is helpful. ;)

[Rebe]

Some just to be sure I am getting this right, we'd be fine without any other grammar, science and social studies until the 3rd grade?
what about spelling? That is offered in 2nd grade R&S and I am wondering if that is something we should plan on doing or not.

I actually don't add social studies or science until they're done with BY FIAR, which is about 7th grade. :) My dc are doing fine in both areas, and we've never seen the need to add to FIAR or BY in those subjects. The history and science in FIAR and BY have been enough.

Now, I'm a former English teacher, so I do add a more formal grammar text in 3rd grade -- that's R&S for us. This has worked well with my oldest two; we'll see how it works with my third child, who doesn't like language arts very much. :unsure: I also don't add spelling until about 5th grade (we use Spelling Power).

I'm with Lisa -- you will find what works best for you! Don't feel like you have to have it all planned out right now. Believe me, you don't. You have plenty of time.

[Melissa C]

Some just to be sure I am getting this right, we'd be fine without any other grammar, science and social studies until the 3rd grade?
what about spelling?

I believe FIAR Science and SS will be more than enough for all of elementary, if you choose to do those lessons. Quite honestly, we could not do all of the SS and Science lessons if we tried! Remember, Jane designed FIAR with an elementary scope and sequence in mind, so she hits all the stuff they need to know. And if you look at your state's requirements for Science and SS in public school, the list is really not that long. at all. And they are concepts, not specific facts. (Like "animals are divided up into families" as opposed to "a cow is part of the _________ _________ species.") Those concepts will be very easily taught as you read and enjoy FIAR books.

As for spelling, IMO it's totally unnecessary until 3rd grade or so. (I will say, I have a natural speller who will not ever need formal spelling, but I think that would still be my vote.) And likewise for formal grammar. Phonics is necessary if your kiddo needs some help learning to read, and a formal Math program as well, but other than that, you will find your days very full with FIAR and quickly see that it is very much "enough."

There are also some articles in the archives on this very subject.

[Suz MamaFrog]

Alright, we've been using FIAR for 8 years now and here's my advice:

K - FIAR, FIAR math with some copywork on numbers thrown in, phonics (MY vote is Progressive Phonics - it's free online, and designed for the one-on-one setting of a homeschool. Also, it's multi-level, so if a child completes all the way through the advanced books, she should be ready to read just about anything you put in front of her. It was the program that finally helped my special needs son figure out what all those things on the page actually meant.) Add in copywork as she progresses through her phonics lessons for handwriting, if she's ready. PP has copywork for downloading, too.

1 to 3 - FIAR, Progressive Phonics, FIAR LA (if you must have formal grammar, use Primary Language Lessons starting in 2nd grade,) copywork for handwriting, FIAR Science, FIAR Social Studies and some family and local history/geography stuff, and a math program. Keep the math program simple, hands-on and fun. Try living math, Math on the Level, Miquon or CIMT's MEP program (it's free online, too.)

4 to 8: FIAR volume 4 and BY, Intermediate Language Lessons, copywork for cursive, Life of Fred, living math or Math on the Level for math and maybe some foreign language like Latin or Spanish.

Along the way, you can add in artist and composer studies, nature studies, cooking with the FIAR cookbook, and any Bible/religious study you feel appropriate.

Here's my reasons why:

K - keep it simple and fun. Fun learning is easy learning, for both student and teacher. The student receives, attends and retains better when the learning is fun and stress-free. The teacher has an easier time teaching a student willing to receive, attend and retain. Win-win. FIAR math is plenty for this age, too, btw. If your dd is ready to begin writing, you can have her do some number tracing to add to her math lessons. Progressive Phonics is free, fun and effective. What more could you ask for?

1 to 3 - FIAR LA is plenty for this age, but if you or your spouse feels that you NEED to begin formal grammar, choosing PLL keeps the same gentleness, the same softness that you have with your FIAR lessons. And I can tell you from experience that is does work. You'll want math that has a concrete, hands-on element to it for this age, too, as she progresses from object to abstract thinking processes. ("These three red beads mean this number 3 and this + means to put those three red beads with these 4 blue beads.") Miquon, living math, Math on the Level (which is really just living math formalized for you) and CIMT's program all offer those kinds of discoveries and opportunities. Adding some local and family history and geography helps your child know her place in her world and intimate family society - helps her make sense of the stories, places, holidays, traditions, etc. that are meaningful to your family and therefore to her. Jane has some family-oriented lessons, but I like to expand upon them more, continue them longer than just one or two titles.

4 to 8: ILL is again a good choice because it is very FIAR-ish by nature. It will take you through 6th grade. Miquon math only goes to 3rd grade, so if you choose it, you'll have to move on to something else. FIAR 4 and BY offer much for the middle-schooler. The only thing I've really added to BY for my dd besides ILL and math has been Latin, state history and geography and composition. Life of Fred is a literary math program - it uses a story line with characters, dialogue and everything just like a "real" book to teach math. You can start it sometime around 4th or 5th grade, as the first book in the series is on fractions. It continues all the way through high school maths. You may find that you need a formal "how to write" program to teach proper composition skills, as this is the one area I really find lacking in ILL. We use Writing Strands, as it too continues all the way through high school/college level writing. And it too, is sort of gentle and easy going, with a humorous bent, so I often find my dc groaning over their WS lessons at the bad puns, etc.

That's my two cents worth, although it's long enough to be 5 cents worth by now..... ;)

HTH,
Suz

[rachelmn]

The only thing I would add would be math, phonics and spelling. :) FIAR has everything else.

[DawnD]

My boys learned to read with R&S 1st grade - so I liked it. The combination of phonics and sight words really worked well for us. We learned quite quickly though that we weren't going to do ALL the workbook pages. We pick and chose those which seemed helpful or fun. Those extra activity pages were fun for them and did reinforce the phonics learning. The readers were great too. So, what not to get??? That is hard to say exactly, but I think it needs to be a pick and choose thing with the worksheets or it's too much.

Just my 2 cents.