Is soy formula alright?

[Leslie Nelsen]

It is what we have been using with Eliana. Mainly due to my oldest having a milk intolerance as a young child (he outgrew it). I've delayed milk with the others and none have had formula in the past. We were alright with trying this so as to avoid any potential intolerance in Eliana. She did have a regular formula the first 2 weeks (though not much) and we saw no ill effects of it then.

I rec'd a post about the dangers of soy formula from the mercola site. It basically stated not to EVER use it. I can fiind the link if that helps anyone.

I know that I'm emotionally a bit of a wreck right now. I know that my judgment may not be as "impartial" and critical (in terms of evaluating something) as I would like. I'm wondering though if we should switch her formula. I don't want to be giving her something that might hurt her in any way!!! I wish she could be completely breastfed, but that just isn't going to happen. I do want the next best option.

I don't want to be rash as I realize that Eliana is in heart failure. I don't know if this type of change would be too much for her to handle right now? Are there other questions I should be asking?

We don't see her ped again until next week - and then it isn't her regular ped as she is out of town for awhile. I could probably try to call tomorrow and ask a nurse or doctor there. (The more I think about this, the better that sounds.) Its too late for that now though. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge about this?

I appreciate your help!

With love,

[Heather W]

We used soy for three out of our four kids. When I was due to be a new mom I read in all the bf books that if you cannot nurse go with soy. I also saw other new moms switch formulas a lot until they got to soy.

We began with soy straight out of the gate and had no problems until number four. He was a fussy sort and I thought, "Oh no! Not the fourth...he can't be fussy!" When I saw blood in his diaper I knew something was amiss and the ped quickly determined he was allergic to soy. And all protein actually. He had to go on nutramigen- the pre digested proteins and he was a new baby. He never was able to tolerate soy or regular formula. We went to gentlease- partially digested and MUCH less expensive!

My oldest has a possible soy allergy, but that is the only ill effects I have seen from it. Our kids are all pretty healthy, but all have some level of dairy allergy.

I guess I'm no help with your specific concern, but we did use it and my kids are fine.

[Sheri]

If she's tolerating it I wouldn't switch it. Then you deal with all sorts of other issues that can come up with changing formulas!

For the record we used Soy with Dylan and he's a typical stinker of a 12 year old.

[Hollie in SC]

Leslie, Eli was on Wal-Mart's generic Paren'ts Choice Soy from 9 months til age 2yo because of dairy allergies. (It was cheaper than soy milk when he turned 1yo.)

Kyle was dairy allergic til 9 months (when he, like Eli at the same age, weaned himself) then he was soy allergic :crazy:....so he was on Wal-Mart's generic Paren'ts Choice dairy formula.

Noah was also on the Paren'ts Choice Soy from 1 month to 15 months. He spit up a LOT more with dairy!!

Soy has worked very well for us.

Praying you have peace about it, my friend, no matter what you decide. :group:

[Loree']

Aaron was on soy formula; he tolerated it better than milk based. I would just keep doing what you've been doing until you can talk w/ the ped.

[JenniTN]

I used soy formula with both of my children. My first child had a terrible time with regular formula, so we switched her to soy and she was a completely different baby! So, when I had baby #2, we just started out with soy.

We had no problems whatsoever with soy formula.

[Leslie Nelsen]

Thank you. :hcry:

I'm just a wreck over here sometimes I know. It helps a lot to hear that ya'll have used this and your children are fine - even stinkers. :lol:

So much of what I'm doing with Eliana is new and different. I feel like a first time parent with so many of the things that I'm trying to learn.

Some of those health stories can just flat out scare you! I obviously need to pray about this.

I'm very thankful for your good and encouraging words dear friends! :group:

Hugs to all of you!

[Jody in PA]

My second one I fed this to him and now wished never would I have. Soy can be made with Generically Modified seeds which Russia just did testing on rats and they got cancer. I don't want to scare you, but do research it. I have read that soy can make a person sterile given too much as an infant. I might have read that out of the book called "The Whole Soy Story by Kaayla Daniel PHD, CCN.

This is my view, but do the research. I know if I have a breast feeding problem we will be giving raw milk to an infant. We have several customers doing it and they have very healthy infants. Your typical Dr. won't allow it, but we have Drs. here that will say go ahead. Weston Price also has a homemade fomula using raw milk. www.westonjprice.org

[Jody in PA]

I just pulled the book off the shelf and yes it has to do more with boys. It talks about the soy formulas. Sperm counts fall and that concerned me, but I ask God to help me threw my wrong if this is a problem with my son in the future. My husband told me we didn't know, so now we do more research than ever.

It did say to that ADD was higher and this son shows some things like that. He was the one that caused us to research health things and to do away with processed foods. We saw issues around 3 years old with him.

Here again soy is found everywhere. In China or Japan they use alot of soy but in it's natural state. He the problem is we process it and that is why it is harmful.

Take this for what it is worth, but I just wished somebody would have told me more. Everyone has to know what they want to do. I am not offended with what you go with. You have had a lot on your plate. All I want is for people to just do research and than go with what they feel is right.

So I don't want to come across in a bad way.

Blessings,

[Lisalyn]

All 6 of my babies were on soy formula. The first was switched due to intolerance and I just automatically put the others on soy.

My last two babies went from soy formula to Silk soy milk. Eli is drinking a carton of Vanilla Silk every 2 days!

We have had no problems with the soy with our healthy children or our heart babies.

[KristenS]

I read somewhere that it's lacking some nutrient that regular formula has. Iron? I don't know. But it's worth looking into, just to make sure she gets whatever other supplement she needs.

Otherwise, if she's tolerating it, I'd say go for it ... you've got enough worries. :)

[Faith]

We had Soy formula Dr. recommended to us with two of our foster babies. It really helped clear up some skin issues in one.

I agree that you have enough on your plate - don't stress on this one!!

[Melissa C]

Hi Leslie,
If you are concerned on your own, I would look into it and pray about it. I think in Eliana's grand scheme of things, soy formula will be okay for her, but there are some major concerns out there with it. My SIL read on one website that every 8 oz of soy formula is like one birth control pill (b/c of the synthetic soy) for a baby. If you switch, I would do it slowly. I've heard to switch like this...

Monday 100 soy
Tuesday, Weds 75% soy, 25% new formula
Thursday, Fri 50/50...
You get the idea. This would also give you an idea if she is tolerating it okay before she got major amounts of it.

My dd had to have some formula for supplementation and I used Goodstart milk based formula. It has enzymes added to it which digest the proteins somewhat so it is easier to tolerate. My dd has a milk allergy, but can tolerate that formula (and it is definitely a milk allergy) because of the broken down proteins. Maybe that would be an option for you.

Go with your gut... usually a mama's instinct is right!

[mariah m]

Leslie,

Kids with Down's Syndrome tend toward thyroid issues. I've read things about soy being a contributing factor. But if that is what is working for you right now, maybe you should go with it. There is also Lactofree formula.

When Nicolas went through this we had to go to GI to talk about concentrating his formula. Honestly, it's all a blur now and I can't remember. But it didn't last too long because we gave up and hospitalized him.

I've been to Mercola's site a few times..and honestly, it can make me nuts :crazy: I can't live up to those standards.

For what it's worth, try to go easy on yourself. You are under incredible stress. Just stick to basics. Dr. Mercola's site is NOT basic :roflol: :roflol: You will have more time later on to decide what you might want to do differently. I've never been able to stick to any diets for him, or any regimen. I've had to learn to come to terms with him doing what he does when he's ready.

I also figure him being the youngest there will, God willing, be plenty of time to dote on him as the other kids get older.

[Jen in SC]

:group: Leslie, I know I would be doing the same thing in your shoes. I question everything with Betsie and sometimes feel like a first time mom with her...just because we got her at 10.5 months old! She will have issues the others never had, and it's weird. Praying for you to feel at total peace knowing that God loves you and your dear Eliana. He will direct your path. :group:

[Tammy in Texas]

Don't know if it helps you or not; but we used soy with our oldest, and she's fine. {{{Hugs}}}

[TonyaP]

If you want to avoid dairy and soy, you could consider Alimentum. I used it with my 2nd and 3rd after the first was diagnosed with dairy and soy allergies. Of course you'll want to talk to your ped first. :group:

[Kendall in GA]

...I used it (name brand and generic from Target) for both of my troops.

Praying that you have peace about what is best for your precious Eliana. :group:

[Sheena]

Leslie, I'm not sure if this an option to you...but have you considered finding a breastmilk donor? I don't know all the specifics of what's going on, but if you aren't making enough for her there may be mother's out there willing to donate milk to you. Or you could look into having your dr. prescribe donor breast milk and its possible to have insurance cover it. I would think with her heart condition breast milk is what is best for her and would help keep her immunity at the best it can be. I'm not trying to shed any guilt...like I said I don't know the specifics here, like why the need for the formula...but personally I'd rather try to find a health breastmilk donor than use any formula. Just my 2 cents, but I'm not in your situation, so you just have do whats best for your babe and yourself.

[Lisa in NE Alabama]

:group:

Leslie,

Praying you find what is right for Eliana.

With love,

[Carol S]

I have no formula experience, but do know that the Mercola stuff is overwhelming and sometimes pretty extreme. I think if Dr. Mercola wants you to change formula, then he can jolly well come down there and take care of your precious infant. Otherwise, keep praying and trust the Lord to lead you properly through the caretakers he has placed in your path.

And, FWIW, this is coming from a nursing nazi who tries hard to avoid soy in our own diets. But I don't have a baby whose weight I'm working day and night to increase and who is facing imminent heart surgery. She's done well on it so far. This close to surgery doesn't seem like a great time to make a change. After the surgery, if you have some time to investigate and feel led to change, then hey! More power to you! But for now, take that burden off yourself and stay off alternative health websites until after surgery. ;) :group:

[Jennifer]

I think Carol is right!

[TonyaP]

I think Leslie's doing what she and her doctor consider BEST for her child, regardless of what anyone else with a perfectly healthy little baby that they can afford to experiment with thinks. Honestly, there is no way I would bank my baby's life on someone else's dietary choices. Especially not a medically fragile child. Nor would I think this would be the time for Leslie to become a junior chemist and try to make up her own concoction just to avoided the dreaded manufacturer's formula.

Leslie, I've given each of my children formula and not a single one of them has grown a 2nd head yet. You keep doing what you and your doctor think is best.

[Jen in CO]

If she's doing well on the soy formula, I say leave her on it unless the ped recommends a change based on her individual needs. Yeah, in a perfect world all babies would be given XYZ, or whatever the current prevailing trend is in baby-feeding. But, this isn't a perfect world, and sometimes we all just have to do what we can with the circumstances we have and the time we have to do it in.

Sending prayers and :group: your way!

[Lisa in NE Alabama]

:wornout:

Bowing out of this one gracefully.

Leslie and others, please accept my apologies on my opinions. I am confident you will find what works for your sweet little one.

With love,

[TonyaP]

Yes Lisa I was. I think you've made your opinion on the subject of formula clear, to all of us. I'm not sure how it helps Leslie in making her decision to continue this line of discussion however. Perhaps if you'd like to call me out on the matter further, you could do so via private message.

Leslie, my apologies. I know you are under way too much stress to have to worry about everyone else's agenda. Just so *you* know, if a true dairy allergy is suspected then goat's milk is not recommended because it's protein resembles cow's milk and may trigger an allergic reaction. Since we don't deal with intolerances here I can't tell you what the risks are in that circumstance.

[ShaunaCO]

I have always read that you shouldn't use soy formula unless it's recommended by a doctor, so I'd at least call and talk to one.

[Leslie Nelsen]

Hi All,

Thank you so much for sharing your experiences and knowledge with me! :group: I feel like I'm questioning so much these days. Just wanting to do what is best and feeling so out of control and out of my element on so much of this, KWIM?

She was fed completely on breastmilk to begin with, but my milk didn't increase as it should over the first couple of weeks. I've tried almost everything!!! I really, really wanted this to work. She is able to latch on but unable to nurse for long as it just wears her out. :( That's ultimately why she had to get a feeding tube - she just does not have the strength to consume nearly what she needs orally. She does maybe 5 ounces a day (on a really good day) orally and the rest is through the feeding tube. (She takes about 23 oz per day.)

The decision to go with soy was made with a nutritionalist at the children's clinic. Both Eliana's cardiologist and ped are aware that she is on soy and neither seemed to think it was problematic. She is "tolerating" it fine which is all we've really looked for in the formula.

Leslie, I'm not sure if this an option to you...but have you considered finding a breastmilk donor? I don't know all the specifics of what's going on, but if you aren't making enough for her there may be mother's out there willing to donate milk to you.

I have had 2 people willing to do this for Eliana. When I asked my ped she said "no". She didn't want the risk of anything being passed through to Eliana since she is in heart failure.

I also asked about goat milk as I talked to a dear gal about this being a good option. She even helped me to find a source for it locally. My ped again said "no" to this as she felt it was lacking in DHA and ???some other A that's in breastmilk. It is something I would like to look into further, but just haven't had time to do so now. For what it's worth, my ped tends to be on the conservative side as well as very thorough and very compassionate. She and I don't agree on everything, but there is a healthy respect for differences and a willingness to work together. She is really wonderful!

I think you are all right about not switching now. It's something I can research/pray about and consider switching after her heart is repaired. Thank you for talking me down from this one. It's definitely something to ask her ped about. Carol, I loved your comments and you definitely gave me a laugh.

I'm sorry for the controversy with this thread. I certainly didn't mean for there to be one. I know that this can be a difficult subject and it is one I just haven't had to think about much before. I still have lots of questions about bottles, nipples and such. I've pumped and pumped hoping that I'd make it until after her surgery. My hopes are waning though as my supply is just not where it should be. It's really not surprising given the stress I've been under for the last 3 months. I'm glad that there are other options.

I appreciate all of you so very much! :group: Thank you for being so patient and loving with me. :hcry:

Love,

[Sheena]

Thanks for replying Leslie. I understand the concern about a breast milk donor. If it was my situation I'd probably ask the mother's to have a health physical done or have them tested for HIV and Hepatitis. Maybe then your ped would be willing, but thats another extra mile to go. Also with breast milk it doesn't have to be an all or nothing thing. If you have to add in some formula then please don't worry about this, but if you are still offering her your breastmilk then she is receving the immunities. So in my mind its better to offer her your breast milk over a longer amount of time than to quit offering breast milk one day and switching to formula. Even if you have to do half breast milk or 1/4 breast milk, whatever the amount, its still giving her the immunities. Unfortunately, I find that many peds although encourage mothers to breastfeed as soon as there is trouble they are quick to suggest formula instead of helping fix the breastfeeding problem. You can email me privately if you want to talk more about this. Just so you you know my back ground, I'm an RN in Mother Baby and a La Leche League Leader and on my way to sitting for the IBCLC exam. I'm not at all bragging, even though it looks that way to me as a I write this, I just wanted you to know that background I was coming from so it gave me some credibility. I don't mean to be prying but have you seen a Lactation Consultant in your area? What kind of pump you pump with can really make a difference. And sometimes even changing the size of the pump flanges can help. The flanges are the part that goes onto your breast. Anyway, I've offered all this advice because I care about you and your baby...I'm not trying to push anything for those that read this...but offering up what I know. Take care Leslie.

ETA: If you receive breastmilk from a breast milk bank, the milk has been pasteurized and the donating mothers have been through a health screening. More insurance companies are covering the cost of donated breast milk. You can ask your ped about this and then check with your insurance company. And since you are pumping and not breastfeeding directly a couple of times a day you can take your clean finger and put into Eliana's mouth to get some of her saliva, then take this saliva and dab/rub it on yournipples. Your body will then get exposed through your nipple openings any viruses or bacteria she has been exposed to and then you will make the antibodies for her in your milk. In a baby who is directly breastfeeding they are doing this all the time, but when a mom is just pumping this will help. Also skin to skin contact can boost your prolactin levels for making milk. A few times a day or as much as you can get Eliana down to her diaper and just lay her on your bare chest. It feels good, plus it can help you make more milk. Just my other 2 cents;)

[carriejoy]

Leslie,

I understand where you're coming from. BF was soooo hard with my first. I literally didn't even pump 2 oz/day! In 24 hours of pumping!! My girl didn't latch on until she was 6 weeks old.

I felt so guilty doing formula - afterall, i was stay at home supermom! ha.

I will pray that God will help you with this. But soooooo many babies have never had breastmilk ever and they turn out ok too.

We did soy with my boy btw. ;) I BF and supplemented w/ formula as again I just couldn't get much pumped (tried 4 different pumps and also did the la leche league and lact. consultant route with BOTH kids)

I DID find a drug called Reglan (sp?) to help in my production and also the herbal stuff... oh, my brain isn't helping me. IT MADE A NOTICEABLE difference in my production! It did make me smell like maple syrup though!! ;)

[Kisha]

I used soy formula with my daughter. She still prefers soy milk (Silk) to drink.

I tried to give soy to the boys, but they didn't care for it.

[Angela]

Leslie,

I DID find a drug called Reglan (sp?) to help in my production and also the herbal stuff... oh, my brain isn't helping me. IT MADE A NOTICEABLE difference in my production! It did make me smell like maple syrup though!! ;)

Leslie, since you said that you still want to increase your milk supply, I wanted to pipe in here and mention fenugreek. (I'm taking a guess that that's the herbal stuff Carrie used.) Fenugreek seed has been used to increase milk production since biblical times. Here's some info I found on the website http://www.breastfeedingonline.com/fenugreek.shtml :

"Fenugreek seeds contain hormone precursors that increase milk supply. Scientists do not know for sure how this happens. Some believe it is possible because breasts are modified sweat glands, and fenugreek stimulates sweat production. It has been found that fenugreek can increase a nursing mother's milk supply within 24 to 72 hours after first taking the herb. Once an adequate level of milk production is reached, most women can discontinue the fenugreek and maintain the milk supply with adequate breast stimulation. Many women today take fenugreek in a pill form (ground seeds placed in capsules). The pills can be found at most vitamin and nutrition stores and at many supermarkets and natural foods stores. Fenugreek can also be taken in tea form, although tea is believed to be less potent than the pills and the tea comes with a bitter taste that can be hard to stomach."

If I were in your shoes, I think I'd be trying the the pills. I have whole fenugreek seeds here, which I brewed into a tea, and let me tell you...even with honey, there was NO way I could drink that stuff. So, if you try it, go with the capsules. HTH

Love and prayers, :group:

[Robin H in VA]

Hi Leslie

I used soy formula with my 2 older children, now 20 and 17, they were both milk intolerant. They both did well on the soy and as that got old, grew out of their intolerance.

Now my youngest, now 5 yro, is lactose intolerant. He was the only one that I was able to breast feed, but it didn't last long. We tried regular formula, and soy formula. We had to end up using Lactose Free formula. I know that this is sold in the Parent Choice brand and I think there is another brand, not sure of the name.

We tried powdered milk and he couldn't do that either, then we went to Pedia Sure and used it for a long time before going to the Lactaid and it was really hard to wean him from that.

I know that your dd is too young from the powdered milk and pedia sure, but try to find the Lactose Free formula. The PC is sold only at Wal-Mart and like I said, there is another lactose free, but not sure of the brand.

Hope you find something that works with the little one.

[TonyaP]

You probably already know this, but using herbal or drug based remedies to increase milk supply is probably not going to fly with the cardiologist. I had to do a LOT of research on these topics because Ds was so low weight and so very allergic as a child. Adding anything new to the mix, natural or synthetic is a huge no-no when you are already dealing with medical problems in the child. We had to be very careful because we just couldn't afford any setbacks.

But again, I'm sure you already know that as you've mention that you've checked out various other options with your doctor. So I guess I'm just sharing it as a general FYI for the moms who've not dealt with a situation like yours. Even if it was OK for every other mom in the universe, it might not be for the particular mother and child dealing with a specific medical condition.

[Ronette in CA]

You probably already know this, but using herbal or drug based remedies to increase milk supply is probably not going to fly with the cardiologist. I had to do a LOT of research on these topics because Ds was so low weight and so very allergic as a child. Adding anything new to the mix, natural or synthetic is a huge no-no when you are already dealing with medical problems in the child. Even if it was OK for every other mom in the universe, it might not be for the particular mother and child dealing with a specific medical condition.



Just wanted to comment that I was cleared to use Fenugreek when I was pumping for Katherine and her heart defect was extremely severe!

In your case, Leslie, I would really think twice about Reglan as one of its known side effects is depression which is something you certainly don't need to be dealing with.

:group:

[carriejoy]

Oh Ronette,

I really struggled with post partum issues! NO ONE mentioned that depression was a reglan side effect!!!

I used fenugreek w/ #2 right away and didn't have nearly the PPD as I did w/ my first. I wonder if Reglan "helped" :unsure:.

Poor Leslie, she's probably getting waaaaaay more than she hoped with her innocent soy question!

Leslie, I'm so sorry if I've contributed to any frustration for you. I guess we just all want for you to have the best info we personally have available to us! I figured if anything I said piqued your interest you'd talk to your doc about it.

Still praying for you, your family and baby girl Eliana.

[Leslie Nelsen]

Thank you sweet friends. I never knew that this topic could generate so much discussion. I am thankful for all that ya'll have shared. :group:

In terms of nursing, I really have tried virtually everything I could to make breastfeeding work. I've tried fenugreek (helped some, but I was never able to get my milk supply to where it should be). I'm guessing that the intense stress didn't help at all.

I can't take reglan as I'm allergic to it. Found that out with pregnancy #3 and a trip to the ER with lockjaw. :eek: Very frightening. I've heard good things about it's results though. There was one other drug that the lactation consultant mentioned, but the ped would not clear it for Eliana.

Sheena - thank you for your very sweet offer to help! :group: What a great resource to have all of that good information. You shared some things I haven't heard - thank you! (About touching her mouth to help build antibodies.) I've met with a wonderful lactation consultant here many many times! Eliana is able to latch on, but doesn't ever stay there for long (5 minutes). Eating just wears her out. One of the nurses said eating for her is like running a marathon for us. Just a lot of hard work! We've tried a supplemental nursing system, nipple shields, various pumping schedules, various things to the diet (mother's milk tea, oatmeal) and anything else that I could that wouldn't harm Eliana. I have the best pump out there I think - Medela symphony. I tried several and this one seemed to be the best. I did change sizes on the phlanges in the hospital to get the correct fit too. I really have tried and though I haven't officially given up yet, I can see that it is only a matter of time. (Yes, I've been stubborn about this one.)

Thank you too for the reminder of giving some breastmilk each day. I have some saved/frozen for the day when I don't have any more and I need to remember to use it like this - especially as we draw close to her surgery.

I may look into other feeding options for Eliana - after her surgery. Ya'll are right that this is just too much to deal with right now. It helps to hear from each of you. I appreciate your willingness to help me and our sweet daughter. It helps to hear your stories about your children and their experiences with the soy formula. :group:

Love to you all,